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 Presentation Ivan

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Ivan
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MessageSujet: Presentation Ivan   Mer 21 Mai - 18:54

Je suis espagnol et j'ai vu le votre forum annoncé ici, je suis un membre de ce forum où un europeisme socialiste est revendiqué. Mon français est assez mauvais mais j'espère pouvoir échanger des opinions avec vous. Un salut!
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MessageSujet: Re: Presentation Ivan   Mer 21 Mai - 18:56

Je ne savais pas qu'on parlait de nous sur des sites espagnols. Bienvenue en tout cas sur ce forum, le seul forum en français d'idéologie euro-socialiste.
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MessageSujet: Re: Presentation Ivan   Mer 21 Mai - 19:06

Les avantages d'Internet...
Je pense que le contact entre des Européens est indispensable si nous voulons construire quelque chose ensemble. L'unité fait la force!
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MessageSujet: Re: Presentation Ivan   Mer 21 Mai - 19:09

L'unité derrière un projet commun et derrière une stratégie commune. Sur ce forum, nous considérons que le projet européaniste au sens positif de ce terme doit être irréprochable autant sur la forme que sur le fond.

Bâtir un parti européen n'a évidemment de sens que si à terme il est présent sur tout le continent, de l'Islande à la Russie. Ce ne sera pas facile.

Je suis allé sur le forum que tu as indiqué, et j'ai lu quelques commentaires à propos de notre mouvement. Plutôt des remarques positives. J'ai également lu qu'un vieil article sur l'indépendance de la Catalogne sur notre forum avait suscité une réaction d'un membre. Pour lui répondre, je dirai que nous sommes pour une Europe divisée en euro-régions identitaires, et que l'indépendance dans l'Europe de la Catalogne, de l'Ecosse, du Kosovo, de l'Abkhazie, de l'Ossétie, du Pays de Galles, de la Bretagne, de l'Euzkadi... ne nous dérange pas à condition que ces pays soient des euro-régions de l'Europe et non des états souverains.

PS: si tu préfères que nous discutions dans une autre langue, en anglais par exemple, pas de problème ! Smile
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MessageSujet: Re: Presentation Ivan   Mer 21 Mai - 19:35

Ferrier a écrit:


PS: si tu préfères que nous discutions dans une autre langue, en anglais par exemple, pas de problème ! Smile
Oui, mieux. Merci beaucoup.

I think that we must talk about constructing an european nation, a new, bigger structure, as european we have common problems and so should be the answer. To overcome the old structures of the european states, to agglutinate our people in one only voice. We need to broke the old barriers.
The separatists do and want exactly the oposite: separate instead of unify, create new borders inside Europe, dividing facing one against other. An egoistic and closed idea.
As european we must shake our hands, not broke the fingers of the neighbour saying that its finger belongs to me.
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MessageSujet: Re: Presentation Ivan   Mer 21 Mai - 19:56

Citation :
The separatists do and want exactly the oposite: separate instead of unify, create new borders inside Europe, dividing facing one against other. An egoistic and closed idea.


The question is: to separate from Europe and be an independant country, or to separate from another country but stay in Europe. There are two kinds of regionalism - a good regionalism, the will of an identitarian euro-region inside the European Nation; a bad regionalism, a regional "sovereignism", which would divide Europe. Sovereignity to Europe, identity to (euro)-regions.

Citation :
As european we must shake our hands, not broke the fingers of the neighbour saying that its finger belongs to me.

I agree with you. But, for example, in France, the defenders of "France alone", by europhobic nationalism, fight the true europeanists, as we are, and also fight the regionalists. I know that in Spain the nationalists of Euzkadi and of Catalonia are "left-winged" in the bad sense of "left", the "social-democratic" false "Left", not our Left.

I prefer a basque who considers himself as european and basque, and neither french nor spanish. If Euzkadi became an unified euro-region inside the European Nation, for example, where would be the problem ?

I have to say that the questions of regionalism is not the heart of our ideology. We fight for an unified Europe, with only one state, only one parliament, only one nation. A nation divided in identitarian euro-regions, with numerous european languages, but only one nation with an unitarian language.

Best regards.
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MessageSujet: Re: Presentation Ivan   Mer 21 Mai - 20:01

About our project/program, there is an english version here:
http://socialiste.forumactif.com/programme-officiel-official-program-f25/presentation-du-psune-presentation-of-the-neusp-t4903.htm
(the second message of the topic, the first one is in french).

We fight for an european state-nation. The european parliament would auto-proclam itself "constitutionnal european assembly", creating the institutions of the European Nation, and suppressing as the states as the "european" commission. This assembly would create an european nationality, not the "citizenship of the EU", a nationality founded on the principle of ius sanguinis, as in the ancient Athens of Pericles.
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MessageSujet: Re: Presentation Ivan   Mer 21 Mai - 20:24

bienvenu ici Ivan
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MessageSujet: Re: Presentation Ivan   Mer 21 Mai - 20:34

Bienvenue

_________________
- La nature comme socle, l'excellence comme but, la beauté comme horizon. - Μολών Λαβέ !
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MessageSujet: Re: Presentation Ivan   Mer 21 Mai - 20:50

Citation :
The question is: to separate from Europe and be an independant country, or to separate from another country but stay in Europe. There are two kinds of regionalism - a good regionalism, the will of an identitarian euro-region inside the European Nation; a bad regionalism, a regional "sovereignism", which would divide Europe. Sovereignity to Europe, identity to (euro)-regions.
But first of all we should distinguish a regionalist of a nationalist, I think that a local nationalist is not compatible with an european national concept.
Citation :
I agree with you. But, for example, in France, the defenders of "France alone", by europhobic nationalism, fight the true europeanists, as we are, and also fight the regionalists. I know that in Spain the nationalists of Euzkadi and of Catalonia are "left-winged" in the bad sense of "left", the "social-democratic" false "Left", not our Left.
Not at all, those who have the regional power are the PNV (basque nationalists), they´re conservative and pure capitalists. They support the muslim-independence of Kosovo for example. Why? because their only finish line is their independence as a nation, no matter with who they must be with. As I said before, an egoistic and close concept of community.
Citation :
I prefer a basque who considers himself as european and basque, and neither french nor spanish. If Euzkadi became an unified euro-region inside the European Nation, for example, where would be the problem ?
I think that in the practice, they never will get what hey want, because they reclame a part of France or some parts of other spanish regions as theirs. And the next question would be: what kind of Europe want this separatists that support the albanish Kosovo?...
I don´t see with friendly eyes an ideology based on the hate against others, for me a spaniard that hates french people is so destructive for my cause as a basque hating another spaniards or frenchmen.
Citation :
I have to say that the questions of regionalism is not the heart of our ideology. We fight for an unified Europe, with only one state, only one parliament, only one nation. A nation divided in identitarian euro-regions, with numerous european languages, but only one nation with an unitarian language.
I considere this regional/separatists topics very secondary, and that the targets should be much more wide for us.
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MessageSujet: Re: Presentation Ivan   Mer 21 Mai - 21:01

Citation :
But first of all we should distinguish a regionalist of a nationalist, I think that a local nationalist is not compatible with an european national concept.

I think that a nationalist, in the classical sense, is not compatible with the europeanist "Weltanschauung", but that numerous regionalists are not "nationalist" and are for Europe. I agree with you about europhobic regionalists.

Citation :
Not at all, those who have the regional power are the PNV (basque nationalists), they´re conservative and pure capitalists. They support the muslim-independence of Kosovo for example. Why? because their only finish line is their independence as a nation, no matter with who they must be with. As I said before, an egoistic and close concept of community.

True for PNV, ETA is more "leftist". But the basques I know are for the protection of basque identity inside the european macro-identity and not for pure independance. In the XXIthe century, independance of small nations is indeed a nonsense. I talked about europeanists-regionalists and not about independantists. What you say about the independantists is quite true.

Citation :
what kind of Europe want this separatists that support the albanish Kosovo?...

The Albanians are europeans, and most of them are atheist. But independant Kosovo is a nonsense. The solution was to propose to Albanians and Serbians to enter European Union in 2009, as Croatia. Neither "Great Serbia" nor "Great Albania" but "Great Europe" ! Smile

Citation :
I don´t see with friendly eyes an ideology based on the hate against others, for me a spaniard that hates french people is so destructive for my cause as a basque hating another spaniards or frenchmen.

I agree with you, indeed.

Citation :
I considere this regional/separatists topics very secondary, and that the targets should be much more wide for us.

The same thing, I agree with your analysis. Smile
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MessageSujet: Re: Presentation Ivan   Ven 23 Mai - 10:38

Bem Vindo Ivan !
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MessageSujet: Re: Presentation Ivan   Dim 14 Oct - 16:46

Hi Ivan,
As a separatist, I want to answer to you.
I'll summarize my ideas already explained in french in my presentation: I'm an walloonish and want wallonnia's independence. I don't agree with the NEUSP idea of an European state, I think that the smallest a state is, the best it's ruled and lead, but I'm for an union of at least all european states and at best all eurasian state that would be a kind of privileged diplomatic relationship.
Ivan a écrit:
The separatists do and want exactly the oposite:
Ivan a écrit:
separate instead of unify,
The will of independence is first a will to gather (unify) the people of the same culture inside some non-coherent states that gathered people that are culturaly too different to live under the same flag. That doesn't makes us some close-minded people that reject the others (even though there are some as in any ideologic fields), that is why I want some privilage relationship inside eurasia, to summarize once again: some more privilage relationship in the actual BeNeLux (Waloonia and Flanders presently known as Belgium, Holland and Luxembourg) and some north regions in France.
Ivan a écrit:
create new borders inside Europe
The more borders there are, the best the people are protected from intrusion and international criminality. The lack of border is a real problem in the Europian Union, it hinders all states to have a real sovereignty.
A border is not a closed door, it's a door generaly opened that just take care of who comes in.
Moreover, it is more and more important to consume locally (for evident ecological reason) and to promote local product, border and taxes are a really great tool.
Ivan a écrit:
dividing facing one against other. An egoistic and closed idea.
The aim is not at all to face one against others, it's to define oneself as from his own culture and the other as from another culture (that is often really interesting by the way).
Gathering people is the opposite of being egoistic and, as I explain, separatism is aboute gathering people with a common culture.
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MessageSujet: Re: Presentation Ivan   Aujourd'hui à 18:30

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