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Ivan
Pérégrin
Inscrit le : 20 Mai 2008
Messages : 5
Localisation : Espagne-Europe
 |  Sujet: Presentation Ivan  Mer 21 Mai - 20:54 | |
| | Je suis espagnol et j'ai vu le votre forum annoncé ici, je suis un membre de ce forum où un europeisme socialiste est revendiqué. Mon français est assez mauvais mais j'espère pouvoir échanger des opinions avec vous. Un salut! |
|   | | Ferrier
Administrateur
Age : 31
Inscrit le : 15 Aoû 2004
Messages : 12998
Localisation : Nation européenne
| | Sujet: Re: Presentation Ivan Mer 21 Mai - 20:56 | |
| | Je ne savais pas qu'on parlait de nous sur des sites espagnols. Bienvenue en tout cas sur ce forum, le seul forum en français d'idéologie euro-socialiste. |
| | | | Ivan
Pérégrin
Inscrit le : 20 Mai 2008
Messages : 5
Localisation : Espagne-Europe
| | Sujet: Re: Presentation Ivan Mer 21 Mai - 21:06 | |
| Les avantages d'Internet...
Je pense que le contact entre des Européens est indispensable si nous voulons construire quelque chose ensemble. L'unité fait la force! |
| | | | Ferrier
Administrateur
Age : 31
Inscrit le : 15 Aoû 2004
Messages : 12998
Localisation : Nation européenne
| | Sujet: Re: Presentation Ivan Mer 21 Mai - 21:09 | |
| L'unité derrière un projet commun et derrière une stratégie commune. Sur ce forum, nous considérons que le projet européaniste au sens positif de ce terme doit être irréprochable autant sur la forme que sur le fond.
Bâtir un parti européen n'a évidemment de sens que si à terme il est présent sur tout le continent, de l'Islande à la Russie. Ce ne sera pas facile.
Je suis allé sur le forum que tu as indiqué, et j'ai lu quelques commentaires à propos de notre mouvement. Plutôt des remarques positives. J'ai également lu qu'un vieil article sur l'indépendance de la Catalogne sur notre forum avait suscité une réaction d'un membre. Pour lui répondre, je dirai que nous sommes pour une Europe divisée en euro-régions identitaires, et que l'indépendance dans l'Europe de la Catalogne, de l'Ecosse, du Kosovo, de l'Abkhazie, de l'Ossétie, du Pays de Galles, de la Bretagne, de l'Euzkadi... ne nous dérange pas à condition que ces pays soient des euro-régions de l'Europe et non des états souverains.
PS: si tu préfères que nous discutions dans une autre langue, en anglais par exemple, pas de problème !  |
| | | | Ivan
Pérégrin
Inscrit le : 20 Mai 2008
Messages : 5
Localisation : Espagne-Europe
| | Sujet: Re: Presentation Ivan Mer 21 Mai - 21:35 | |
| | Ferrier a écrit: |
PS: si tu préfères que nous discutions dans une autre langue, en anglais par exemple, pas de problème ! |
Oui, mieux. Merci beaucoup.
I think that we must talk about constructing an european nation, a new, bigger structure, as european we have common problems and so should be the answer. To overcome the old structures of the european states, to agglutinate our people in one only voice. We need to broke the old barriers.
The separatists do and want exactly the oposite: separate instead of unify, create new borders inside Europe, dividing facing one against other. An egoistic and closed idea.
As european we must shake our hands, not broke the fingers of the neighbour saying that its finger belongs to me. |
| | | | Ferrier
Administrateur
Age : 31
Inscrit le : 15 Aoû 2004
Messages : 12998
Localisation : Nation européenne
| | Sujet: Re: Presentation Ivan Mer 21 Mai - 21:56 | |
| | Citation: | | The separatists do and want exactly the oposite: separate instead of unify, create new borders inside Europe, dividing facing one against other. An egoistic and closed idea. |
The question is: to separate from Europe and be an independant country, or to separate from another country but stay in Europe. There are two kinds of regionalism - a good regionalism, the will of an identitarian euro-region inside the European Nation; a bad regionalism, a regional "sovereignism", which would divide Europe. Sovereignity to Europe, identity to (euro)-regions.
| Citation: | | As european we must shake our hands, not broke the fingers of the neighbour saying that its finger belongs to me. |
I agree with you. But, for example, in France, the defenders of "France alone", by europhobic nationalism, fight the true europeanists, as we are, and also fight the regionalists. I know that in Spain the nationalists of Euzkadi and of Catalonia are "left-winged" in the bad sense of "left", the "social-democratic" false "Left", not our Left.
I prefer a basque who considers himself as european and basque, and neither french nor spanish. If Euzkadi became an unified euro-region inside the European Nation, for example, where would be the problem ?
I have to say that the questions of regionalism is not the heart of our ideology. We fight for an unified Europe, with only one state, only one parliament, only one nation. A nation divided in identitarian euro-regions, with numerous european languages, but only one nation with an unitarian language.
Best regards. |
| | | | Ferrier
Administrateur
Age : 31
Inscrit le : 15 Aoû 2004
Messages : 12998
Localisation : Nation européenne
| | Sujet: Re: Presentation Ivan Mer 21 Mai - 22:01 | |
| About our project/program, there is an english version here:
http://socialiste.forumactif.com/programme-officiel-official-program-f25/presentation-du-psune-presentation-of-the-neusp-t4903.htm
(the second message of the topic, the first one is in french).
We fight for an european state-nation. The european parliament would auto-proclam itself "constitutionnal european assembly", creating the institutions of the European Nation, and suppressing as the states as the "european" commission. This assembly would create an european nationality, not the "citizenship of the EU", a nationality founded on the principle of ius sanguinis, as in the ancient Athens of Pericles. |
| | | | nikaar
Préfet
Age : 31
Inscrit le : 02 Aoû 2006
Messages : 594
Localisation : lille
| | Sujet: Re: Presentation Ivan Mer 21 Mai - 22:24 | |
| bienvenu ici Ivan  |
| | | | Bruno
Légat
Age : 39
Inscrit le : 17 Oct 2005
Messages : 1533
Localisation : Nation européenne.
| | Sujet: Re: Presentation Ivan Mer 21 Mai - 22:34 | |
| Bienvenue 
_________________
Μολών Λαβέ ! |
| | | | Ivan
Pérégrin
Inscrit le : 20 Mai 2008
Messages : 5
Localisation : Espagne-Europe
| | Sujet: Re: Presentation Ivan Mer 21 Mai - 22:50 | |
| | Citation: | | The question is: to separate from Europe and be an independant country, or to separate from another country but stay in Europe. There are two kinds of regionalism - a good regionalism, the will of an identitarian euro-region inside the European Nation; a bad regionalism, a regional "sovereignism", which would divide Europe. Sovereignity to Europe, identity to (euro)-regions. |
But first of all we should distinguish a regionalist of a nationalist, I think that a local nationalist is not compatible with an european national concept.
| Citation: | | I agree with you. But, for example, in France, the defenders of "France alone", by europhobic nationalism, fight the true europeanists, as we are, and also fight the regionalists. I know that in Spain the nationalists of Euzkadi and of Catalonia are "left-winged" in the bad sense of "left", the "social-democratic" false "Left", not our Left. |
Not at all, those who have the regional power are the PNV (basque nationalists), they´re conservative and pure capitalists. They support the muslim-independence of Kosovo for example. Why? because their only finish line is their independence as a nation, no matter with who they must be with. As I said before, an egoistic and close concept of community.
| Citation: | | I prefer a basque who considers himself as european and basque, and neither french nor spanish. If Euzkadi became an unified euro-region inside the European Nation, for example, where would be the problem ? |
I think that in the practice, they never will get what hey want, because they reclame a part of France or some parts of other spanish regions as theirs. And the next question would be: what kind of Europe want this separatists that support the albanish Kosovo?...
I don´t see with friendly eyes an ideology based on the hate against others, for me a spaniard that hates french people is so destructive for my cause as a basque hating another spaniards or frenchmen.
| Citation: | | I have to say that the questions of regionalism is not the heart of our ideology. We fight for an unified Europe, with only one state, only one parliament, only one nation. A nation divided in identitarian euro-regions, with numerous european languages, but only one nation with an unitarian language. |
I considere this regional/separatists topics very secondary, and that the targets should be much more wide for us. |
| | | | Ferrier
Administrateur
Age : 31
Inscrit le : 15 Aoû 2004
Messages : 12998
Localisation : Nation européenne
| | Sujet: Re: Presentation Ivan Mer 21 Mai - 23:01 | |
| | Citation: | | But first of all we should distinguish a regionalist of a nationalist, I think that a local nationalist is not compatible with an european national concept. |
I think that a nationalist, in the classical sense, is not compatible with the europeanist "Weltanschauung", but that numerous regionalists are not "nationalist" and are for Europe. I agree with you about europhobic regionalists.
| Citation: | | Not at all, those who have the regional power are the PNV (basque nationalists), they´re conservative and pure capitalists. They support the muslim-independence of Kosovo for example. Why? because their only finish line is their independence as a nation, no matter with who they must be with. As I said before, an egoistic and close concept of community. |
True for PNV, ETA is more "leftist". But the basques I know are for the protection of basque identity inside the european macro-identity and not for pure independance. In the XXIthe century, independance of small nations is indeed a nonsense. I talked about europeanists-regionalists and not about independantists. What you say about the independantists is quite true.
| Citation: | | what kind of Europe want this separatists that support the albanish Kosovo?... |
The Albanians are europeans, and most of them are atheist. But independant Kosovo is a nonsense. The solution was to propose to Albanians and Serbians to enter European Union in 2009, as Croatia. Neither "Great Serbia" nor "Great Albania" but "Great Europe" !
| Citation: | | I don´t see with friendly eyes an ideology based on the hate against others, for me a spaniard that hates french people is so destructive for my cause as a basque hating another spaniards or frenchmen. |
I agree with you, indeed.
| Citation: | | I considere this regional/separatists topics very secondary, and that the targets should be much more wide for us. |
The same thing, I agree with your analysis. |
| | | | smarty
Légat
Inscrit le : 15 Aoû 2004
Messages : 1914
Localisation : São Paulo BRASIL
| | Sujet: Re: Presentation Ivan Ven 23 Mai - 12:38 | |
| Bem Vindo Ivan !
_________________
"Les conditions pour que s'accomplisse le miracle européen sont réunies. Il ne manque à Athènes qu'un chef qui soit à la hauteur des circonstances, comme Solon, Pisistrate, Clisthène et Périclès l'ont été." |
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